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1 Chat Issues. on Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:30 am

Owen

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I wanted to make this thread, to share some of the concerns that I have noticed, recently.

Firstly, I have seen an increase in.. "Inside" jokes, or whatever you want to call them.. Where, only a couple of people actually know what the joke is talking about, or whatever. I am starting to think these are sounding like personal attacks on the people involved, and until somebody explains otherwise, that is what I think. I am most likely over-thinking it (maybe nobody else has noticed) but keeping people away from what the chat is talking about will make people think.. "Why am I even in here?" And eventually, they will get bored, and leave.

Secondly, Advertising;
I take the view, that Global Chat is a CHAT, and we should have free-flowing members in and out of the chat. Which links to.. we need to advertise the chat in places; I.e. The YouTube page. (Just my opinion) I have asked this before, to many people, to get permission to advertise, and I have never seen any "No, don't" 's, however, after reading the king of things being posted on the forums, I really am thinking people are anti-advertising.

And, what I would say to that.. would be.. to think of it like this;

Say .. We don't advertise, we keep Global Chat as the same group of people, in a few years... say half of them quit. The chat will be half busy. If you think back, a few years.. We have lost a decent amount of ranks in Global Chat, to name a few.. Esh, Duke, Kych, Mainsk8er and so on.. and, then we have nobody to rank up, to deal with the spammers, trolls whatever. The chat WILL die. Well, that is my thinking, maybe you disagree, I don't know.

Well, the main point (I dragged it off topic slightly).. Why is there all this hostility against the YouTube page? and Advertising in general? Everyone should be encouraging it, giving input, feedback, whatever. (It's very demotivating for someone to say something such as.. "don't do that song it sucks" or, whatever other things have been said on my MEP post.)

Thirdly..
The New forums. I am not sure if you have noticed, but the main topics on the forums, are.. "Spam Thread" "Screenshot thread", well I think they're the main 2, and well.. is it really worth using the forums to see spam? (Excluding the Screenshot thread for the moment, which consists mainly of spam at the moment, anyway.) Well, No. I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed, but there seems to be less people using these forums, rather than the older ones, and I was wondering additionally if anyone had any reasons for this? We can change anything on these forums, so.. any suggestions we can work on.. The old forums were very restrictive, of what you could actually change.

Well, That'll do for now, I can't think of anything else at the moment.

Post what you think on the topics mentions above please, I'm pretty sure it's not just me who has noticed these kind of things.





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2 Re: Chat Issues. on Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:04 am

Warillusen

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You've missed out on a lot of Global History.

Last time we massed advertise. The chat almost died. We almost lost Cyrus and a lot of other ranks. Losing ordinary people is one thing but losing people with ranks is not that great. At one point it was just the Liutenants who had to deal with most the shit, had to make up their own rules, no real guidance from Generals or anything. I was apart of that lieutenants team, along with Tppskid and Braydo. >.>

That lasted for about 4 months until Esh decided to come back and bloom the place back up. Don't know if it was Esh's doing but as soon as she came back everyone came back.



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3 Re: Chat Issues. on Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:11 am

Owen

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That makes no sense, that talk about "Mass" advertising, well, I doubt it got bigger than.. The post about the Global chat shindig, on the Runescape homepage. We've lost MOST of those people now, and I don't know why.

With regards to advertising, ofcourse we will get noobs/trolls whatever, but we currently have the ranks to deal with the people that come.. We should get to talk to some nice new people as well.



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4 Re: Chat Issues. on Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:35 am

Vanilla990

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I have to agree and disagree with War.

Yes, When Esh came back, people logged on more because Esh is one of those people in Global that has always made it feel like home. The atmosphere that she brought into the chat when she was online was nice and it's what made people return more often.

However, about losing Cyrus and such I feel that is a little silly. The main people that moan about advertising are those that don't like change. Some of these people moaned about us being put on the homepage but I think it was nice and those that said it would ruin Global Chat and bring in loads of spammers lied. That week went fairly well and those that came in were genuinely friendly and talkative.

I have no problem with Global Chat having a YouTube page, and if you must know...Dez's other channel was being flammed by people so she closed it. She was going to set up another one but decided to offer to run it mainly from her side because she wanted to have an account again and also wanted to contribute more to Global Chat.

Advertising in General. I also have no problem with. If I am doing a quest or an activity and I meet someone really nice and we have a good chat/laugh together I will invite them to come into Global Chat if they ever want to chat with a friendly community. I don't see whats wrong with that and I don't see why others are so against it. Ok...Yes, RuneScape does have a fair amount of idiots in it, but those that we are more than likely talking to are going to be the minority of players that are friendly and want to be a part of a community.

You also have to remember that the reason half of us are even here today is because of the mass advertising that Global Chat used to do in banks for events. Fine, I wasn't there but James (Vanilla450) told me all about it and I even sat next to him at his computer when you guys went out on an advertising spree once, So before you moan about advertising, I suggest you look back at how some of our regulars appeared in Global Chat in the first place.

With regards to the "Inside" jokes. Yes it is getting a little annoying. I blame Ventrilo for this mainly even though I used to use it a lot myself. When it first started it was just a place for us to talk and we used the one on Zybez. But when we got our own and recently since the one Logan bought us there has been a lot of "Inside" jokes and generally being "Childish" on vent, one of the reasons I stopped using it. To me, the "Inside" jokes need to be stopped/reduced because there are some people that might take them the wrong way.

5 Re: Chat Issues. on Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:50 am

Warillusen

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The inside jokes don't even happen that often.

Owen is just complaining because he doesn't know what CP is and that isn't even a Vent joke and about being Childish, doubt we're being childish, childish is coming complaining about nothing and if you want us to be "mature" about everything well then what's the point, I want to have fun. Fun is what I enjoy from Vent, from Runescape. If right now I'm not being "mature" enough then I'm going to tell you this, loosen the fuck up.

Though I agree with your, "Find a good person in public, ask them to join Global" that is something I agree on.

BUT, we all were massed advertise in because that's how you usually jump start a chat. That really should not count as a reason why we shouldn't now, but if we were to take that to account do you want us to place ourselves at the GE and just start spamming "Join Global Chat clan Chat?" for an hour? Because all that'll get us are spammers and trolls.



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6 Re: Chat Issues. on Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:27 am

Vanilla990

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funny you should say that War.

I went to meet a friend of mine, who is part of another clan chat. They advertised at the GE, then they went off to clan wars to fight people, they also run a system where you have to agree to be in the clan and will automatically be given a rank and told about the forums they have. This way they can keep people coming back, admittedly, they are a clan rather than a chat but advertising like that does work and decent people will return. Most of the idiots will leave the cc when they log in the next time.

The group of people that made a chat for W24 because of a group of people that used to spend ages in the Varrock west bank made a clan chat and stand there advertising it sometimes.

We've never really laid down any proper rules towards advertising other than "try not to attract spammers" which we try not to anyway. I still don't see the harm in us advertising like that sometimes, no different than when Global holds silly events like my march around W1 and everyone was saying I was Zezima and advertising Global Chat.

7 Re: Chat Issues. on Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:47 am

Owen

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I don't know if I'm not explaining myself good enough, or whatnot.

Advertising is just 1 part of it; it's not even the main thing.

It's about the atmosphere within global, advertising was more of a side-point.

Maybe it's just me, I don't know. I've seen an increase in trolls/spammers (<- Side point), and then when the regular, high-ranks are demotivating creative thinking.. that's just when I start thinking what's the point in even trying. You go in the chat, "Bahaha Owenilla shad or warisowener" and I'm just like.. What..? and.. at a time where I am trying to get motivated into making a video, with other members of global.. Mainly to BENEFIT global.. And then I get comments like.. "Owen doesn't know what a cp is" JUST STOP. It's pretty upsetting to see comments like this, after all the work, that I and Van have put into making these forums, trying to help the chat, making videos, advertising, making Rsof posts. I'm speaking for myself here.. You might think "haha he's just mad" well, Yes. Yes, I am.

As of now, I am taking a break from Global Chat.
- I will not be in the clan chat ingame.
- My PM will be online, around 20% of the time.
- My 99 dungeoneering party, is cancelled.
- The MEP is still closing tomorrow, and I will post details of what we need to do next.

You can say "Haha he's rage quitting" NO. I'm taking a break, there is a difference.

Well, Speak to you sometime soon. Good Bye.

(Oh, and remember, I posted this in "Serious discussion" for a reason.)

warilusen wrote:Owen is just complaining because he doesn't know what CP
I'm proud I don't.



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8 Re: Chat Issues. on Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:09 am

Durza

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you're smart enough to know not to rage like this...



I bought spins for 99 slayer

9 Re: Chat Issues. on Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:32 am

Vanilla990

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Being honest here, I'm starting to agree with Owen.

There are loads of clan/ clan chats that would be more than happy to accept people with the same enthusiasm that some of us in Global show yet we still keep coming back to GC.

But why? What makes us keep coming back?

Whatever it has been for me, it's becoming less and less successful at trying to keep me here. Some people in Global are just severely arrogant, The chat is just falling apart again and arguments are breaking out. The issues that we tried to deal with before are coming back, and if we're not careful, we're going to be losing people.

10 Re: Chat Issues. on Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:43 am

sky

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Thought I would put in a word in regards to this. As just a couple months ago I was a person who was directly affected by advertising.

To be honest I found out about Global from the Runescape homepage. Whether you all see me as a beneficial recruit or not, I certainly don't think I am viewed as a spammer. Regardless of that, I like Global and have gotten to know everybody more as time went on.

My initial reactions to Global was admittedly poor, however I stuck it out as I thought it just to be "because I am new".

I understand everyone's concern with spammers, in fact I know from experience from running a clan with 3 servers of my own on Counter-Strike: Source for about 2 years. The clan was quite successful and ran 100% off donations from our community. We advertised as much as possible and ran an open door sort of clan, where people could tag up, but only certain members were part of the core. This core participated in Scrimmages that represented our Clan formally and benefited from increased admins and moderated the forums, vent and servers.

We dealt with spammers and people who attempted to crash our servers daily. It is part of running a community. However, the community would not have existed without our advertising, and openness to invite in new comers. Although I may have not wanted to deal with spammers I would not have met a number of people I still talk to today without making our Clan publicly known. (I was oblivious to Global prior to returning to RS, until the homepage advert.)

I understand not everybody wants to deal with spammers and trolls every time they log in. I myself do not mind it, it doesn't take too long to click a name and ban them after all. (I feel if its truly a hassle to moderate a clan, then why have the ability to kick/ban in the first place?). May I suggest that you set certain weekends (possibly once a month) where we advertise in-game. This way it can be moderated closely.

As for the forums, I am not sure how open you want them to be. I myself had to ask a ranked member as even a Google search pulls up the old websites that had me lost and confused. If they are planned to be open to everyone then maybe having the other sites taken down would be beneficial. Also forwarding members who have been around for a while to sign up might make the forums more active.

Finally, on the topic of vent. I personally do not have access to the Global Vent. I am sure the reasoning is you want to keep it closed to people you all know better or have been around for a long time. Also I am unaware of the vents size (10,20,50 person?). I respect that decision, however I do suggest not bringing it up in the cc, I know I fell victim to the question early on where I asked about the vent only to be told I was not allowed to use it. It is not something a new member wants to hear.

I will explain how I ran my CS:S vent server, simply for perspective. Our vent was very open, it was advertised on the forums and our clans community page on steam. This did occasionally bring in spammers, but it was never a big issue for a few reasons. All people who were members of the clan and had been around for a while were registered in the vent server as a member. This tagged them with [M] (member), [V] (veteran), up to [A] (admin). Once being given an [M] you were able to join different channels freely, and more channels became available as you ranked up. If a new member joined, or just a random they would be tagged as [G] (guest) they would not be able to move to any channels but the lobby, and the general discussion unless moved by another member. This made it so those who wanted to talk privately could, while the general players still had a place to talk. It worked quite well and our vent was rarely spammed. If it was it wasn't effective since they were spamming empty channels mostly, while we talked in the Members chat. This eliminated the need to always have an admin present, as even a [M] rank could pull people to the members channels, and at least avoid the spammers. (There was even a time out channel we put spammers in, that rick rolled them until they left Laughing)

I like the idea of an open vent, however this is not a decision I have a say in for Global. I simply bring it up since Owen mentioned that he found that a lot of inside jokes were being made in Vent, by opening vent it reduces this problem.

I apologize for the lengthy post, I merely wanted to help add some perspective and ideas as I am a fairly new member. I hope I was not out of place with anything I have said.

-sky Laughing



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11 Re: Chat Issues. on Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:45 am

King Smorfin

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I'm not much of a forum person, but due to my strong opinions on these subjects, I am forced to make a post.


Responding to your concerns in the same order of your first post. Inside jokes are shared between people who have a close bond with one another. This is something you can't just share with some randomer that comes begging for items or the best way to get 99 wcing (ivy, btw). Think of the inside jokes you have between you and your family in the real world. Even if you're in the worst mood you've ever been in, an inside joke can cheer you up. While it may seem that I am being insulting when I call Green a botter, it isn't. That's why it's an inside joke and that's why Durza has been 12 years old for the past few years.


As for advertising. A free flowing chat? Why? What purpose would it serve? How does it benefit the chat? I see no benefits. And why would you want to publicly advertise in populated areas that are known hangouts for trolls/scammers/doublemoneyflowergamelol/granite noobs? That is not the kind of attention we need to be attracting to this chat. I don't know what kind of outlook you have for this chat, but I don't think I share your same views. I've mentioned this to Van many times. It's something I have openly disagreed with him on. The best way to find people to join Global Chat, in my opinion and as mentioned above in a previous post by Van, is to tell someone cool that you just happen to randomly meet. This is a very effective mention of weeding out the morons that come in only asking for things and contributing nothing to the chat other than to annoy well established members of the chat.


And as to the spam thing, as I've said before; I'm not a forum type of person so I really wouldn't know. But I will say that people need a place to vent. A place to unwind after working 10-12 hours a day for 6 days in a row. A place to let go of all the seriousness of the real world. A place to do whatever one feels like doing. It would be unwise to do away with such a place. The tighter you try to clamp down one someone, the harder they will fight back. The protesting in the Middle East is a great example of this. You can not quell the voice of the people without conflict.


You should take a step back and think about what you're actually saying before you do something you will regret.


12 Re: Chat Issues. on Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:38 pm

Phenix

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Post at work, so bare my words.

I don't know much about the inside jokes, they don't happen that often and seems fine with me.

I do see your point for the advertisement of our cc. We do need new people, and advertisements in busy areas are indeed needed. Getting 1 nice guy you meet in-game will not do the job. I've done that couple of times, and the people just came in and left soon after. I do know that a mass ad would get many spammers into the chat, but not everyone are the kind. If we can keep 1/10 of the 'nice' peole that we dragged into the chat, then the ad is a success.

I don't know how you guys keep the chat alive for 3 years, I was told that you guys do ads regularly, but I don't see it happen.

You guys want quality people over quantity, that's good, but without quantity there is no quality. Owen already stated that people will and do quit the game, so in the future there will be no-one to monitor the chat if we keep this on.

About the new forum, if you google search "global chat forum", the result shows the old one, and the banner you put at the top that directs people to this forum is not clear at all. I've got questioned by people asking me how to sign up because they simply don't notice the banner.

That's about it, have a nice break Owen, let me know when you coming back.





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13 Re: Chat Issues. on Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:10 pm

Cyrus44

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first global chat is not going to die because of what you guys have said

you cant be in a chat for 2-3 years with out making friends
and having "inside jokes"

as for vent.. you cant stop us from using it or making more "inside jokes" its what friends do
and @ sky, we are NOT going to make vent open to anyone because i dont want little kids and people i dont like on it

about Advertising global
i dont care about that do what you want




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14 Re: Chat Issues. on Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:56 pm

Green

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What Cyrus said.



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Just say neigh to gambling!

15 Re: Chat Issues. on Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:11 pm

невидимый

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If you want to advertise, then by all means go for it but please make sure you kick out the trash afterwards. As for the Vent jokes and such, none of them are meant to be absolutely offensive, they're just grossly disproportionated images meant to express ideas the people in Vent have and are mostly just references to humorous conversations we have, in which case none of the people in Global who don't frequent Vent should need to know what it means nor find it as an excuse to become distressed and leave the chat.

Vent-language: "There goes the mega rounder up 60k rc exp per hour guy!"
English: "There goes Loyal!"

In any case, I hope you return soon: relaxed and ready to play more Runescape.





16 Re: Chat Issues. on Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:22 pm

Vanilla990

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I hate to mention this Cyrus.

But when Logan bought us the Vent server he said that we should give out the details of vent to regulars of Global Chat so they can come on and hang out with us.

Yes, Logan has stopped using it now but that doesn't mean that you have the deciding vote over what happens to Vent. There are many of us who use it and I feel that it's a little annoying that you don't want others to use it.

Those that would like the Vent details in my opinion should ask a General or Admin for them. That way we can monitor who we give it to. And if you don't want to listen to people who sound childish, then move to another channel away from them.

17 Re: Chat Issues. on Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:29 pm

Owen

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Just a quick word, As I am still reading stuff that gets posted.

I'm not sure if everyone totally gets the "inside joke" problem. It's not so much having an inside joke, it's about .. Having an inside joke, about someone, and that person not knowing what they're talking about. That.. just alienates people.



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18 Re: Chat Issues. on Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:35 pm

Cyrus44

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what is this we can monitor who we give vent to?
you dont even use it
so how about the people that use vent give out vent details i think thats a better idea

the only reason logan gave us powers on vent was to ban people we didnt want on it



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19 Re: Chat Issues. on Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:36 pm

невидимый

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I assume that by alienated and vent jokes you mean the Owenilla Vent joke?

20 Re: Chat Issues. on Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:57 pm

Cyrus44

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what i mean by using vent is talking on it with other people
not just sitting in the lobby not talking to anyone



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21 Re: Chat Issues. on Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:29 pm

Owen

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Invisible349 wrote:I assume that by alienated and vent jokes you mean the Owenilla Vent joke?

I mean, all of them.



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22 Re: Chat Issues. on Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:53 pm

Est

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Cyrus44 wrote:
you cant be in a chat for 2-3 years with out making friends

going on 1.5 years now



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23 Re: Chat Issues. on Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:25 am

Hans

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Est wrote:
Cyrus44 wrote:
you cant be in a chat for 2-3 years with out making friends

going on 1.5 years now
Ha. No friends.
___________

There's nothing wrong with the vent jokes. The ones that have to do with other people are usually just over-exaggerations of things people do; there's absolutely nothing offensive about them, they're just humour. And most of the time, like you said, people don't understand them, so how can anyone be offended? I started to understand some of the jokes before using vent just by paying attention to the chat. New people need to fit in rather than existing members adjust and be fake.

People being alienated by vent jokes is a load of bull, whenever someone talks directly to one or more people about a topic only they know about, are others being alienated? "Hey Player023269, did you buy the stuff?" "Yeah meet me at the place" "Ok sure thing, I'll bring the other guys" - I have no idea what they're talking about but it's between them, I won't intrude.

If someone thinks there should be an open vent for all Global members, then you should buy one. Pretty sure the current vent users are all friends and it just wouldn't work with everyone, take a look at this thread, it's obvious people don't get along. Besides, the current vent gets full on occasions so there can't really be that many new people.

Advertising.. it is a big issue and there will always be debate around it. I've seen it in many CC's before. In my opinion, mass advertising at this point would be very bad. Don't stand in one place (eg GE) advertising, honestly, 30 people in a cc is a lot and it's hard to keep up or get into a conversation. Advertising can get 50+ new randoms, but guarantee some loved members will leave. Advertise to friends, people asking for a cc, people asking for help with something, tell people who want to add you that they can talk to you in the cc. It will make a difference.
Make Youtube advertisement vids, sure, but don't advertise on highly viewed videos' comments. That's spam and it will only do bad things. If you want to make a video advertising the chat, then the people in the chat should agree it's good, get others' opinions.
There is already a cc forum on RSOF. Perhaps an active user should post in the Clan Chat Directory. It's a thread with a big list of clan chats in an easy to find layout. You only need to post once a month and others will be able to see that Global Chat is a general chat open to everyone.

I stopped using the forums so much when we switched to this one, but there's no real reason. It just doesn't give me the feeling that I want to post. And there's nothing wrong with the spam thread, it's fun. If it was stupid, then it wouldn't be the most popular thread. So yeah, it is worth using the forums to see the spam thread.

The bottom line is that the chat exists now because of everyone in it, whether you agree with each other or not. Don't try to change people or force your views because that won't help at all. Have tolerance for others and accept that this is the way things are and people can make their own choices.



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24 Re: Chat Issues. on Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:49 am

Owen

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Psp Trusz wrote:Don't try to change people or force your views because that won't help at all.

If that's aimed at me, I'm not.

It sounds stupid, when I'm saying the problem is the vent jokes, but it's not, it's the general atmosphere in the chat. A load of small things, which are ruining the chat, when I complain about what seem like "little" things, they're little in the context, but put together... make a very big issue. (In my opinion)

All I want is an open debate, i'm not trying to attack anyone, or whatever.
[Tries to quote Kun - Can't find the post.]



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25 Re: Chat Issues. on Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:20 am

Hans

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I know you're only trying to make the chat better but maybe you need to take a step back and look. What seems to you as ruining the chat could be what makes the chat fun for others. Sometimes when you get too close to something, you can't see the whole picture.

It's only a suggestion and I could be wrong, but think about it.

And I don't think taking a break from the chat is the right direction, you should be in the chat and maybe just watch how others behave without interacting yourself.



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