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1 How to attract old players on Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:10 am

sharppool

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i made a thread on the rsf. let me know how you feel about the idea.



Quick find code: 185-186-275-63706087

On top of all this, what do you guys not like about the game?
I've been thinking lately, and I don't like it because it is too easy. There is never any sense of danger of losing money or wealth, or any real stress when making money. With the old update of gravestones, the grand exchange, all the way to the new update of SOF, this game has became so easy that the game has had a directional selection for the wealthy. I don't play anymore because of how easy the game is and how there isn't ever a sense of urgency or panic in the game. Feedback?



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2 Re: How to attract old players on Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:07 am

Owen

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I haven't read your thread yet - but I will in a sec;

I was talking to some people about this-this morning, RS has got a system where.. You train skills to 99, and then those skills aren't used again (Besides combat skills).

Linked to that, there isn't any end-game content, let's say you max out.. what are you going to do? comp cape? Okay, trimmed comp cape? Then what. You have a cape. What are you going to do with that cape? Spam the emote? come on srsly. <_<

Next, The community isn't as strong as it used to be- In my opinion. I don't exactly know the reason for this, there's probably multiple factors (Free trade removal/add etc.) Just look at youtube, 3 biggest RS youtubers? Chris's "community" channel, Runeshark, Sparc mac? probably? Chris's channel's most viewed video is around 480k views(ish) Rsmv's back in the day probably averaged close to that <_< Anyway offtopic kind of.

"The year of the clans" - I think this was one of the biggest Jagex fails. Maybe, I'm bias. Reasons;

- I still don't see the need for a "Friends Chat" & "Clan Chat" Clan capes? Citadels? (Don't get me started about Citadels)

- There still isn't any "real" content that you can do as a clan? What are you going to do? dungeoneering? (It's hard if everyones not around the same level), Castle wars? (Lolthat'sruined) Clan wars? (Point?) Citadel? (Point?) PvM? (Could do that before) I .. can't think of anything.

Well, I could keep going on this.. but I'm not going to as I have limited time. <_<

Last point.. The concentration on graphics? Sure, they're important but if you ask any player that started RS "back in the day" they didn't start it for the graphics, so Jagex could do themselves a favour by not sacrifcing FPS for graphics. (Or making graphics updates the main update of the month)

Your point about it being too easy, that's true. RS has become too easy with..

Free trade (even though I still think they should keep this)
Gravestones
Curses
Chaotics to a degree
*Dungeoneering update lolkeysharing
etc. etc.

Anyway, I probably missed a load of things, but I gtg get some food. Maybe i'll write some more later.





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3 Re: How to attract old players on Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:31 am

Penguin414

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My reasons are equally spread between what Jagex have done and what the community has become.

I think a lot of people fail to realise that the community is bringing the game down, people only play to level nowadays, it's not about having fun, it's just about grinding to get levels. Take what Owen said for that matter, the goal of the game is to get a comp cape (t) to most, it takes basically all the fun out of the game and your just keep grinding, even if you hate it. All the capes that Jagex brought out is a significant part of this problem as everyone started trying to get their hands on any cape they could.

The other problem is all the updates Jagex have brought out. They're aiming their game at a lower and lower age range (and no, it's not that I'm getting older). Look at all the new tutorial things, they're trying to baby you through the game, with the tasks and the capes, they are trying to give players a definite direction in the game and in a way control how you play, which just destroys the fun of it.

I'm looking forward to [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] it won't the the same as it was then, but it will be much better than what Jagex has currently.

Also, SOF. >.>

And Owen, what's wrong with friends chat? It was one of the best updates Jagex have ever released as it really helped strengthen the community of the game and allowed you to actually take to people instead of sitting there skilling watching your character animation with nobody around to talk to.



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4 Re: How to attract old players on Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:37 am

Warillusen

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I think he just means the splitting of Friends chat and Clan chat entirely.
I probably have a reason for qutting but I can't muster the vocabulary in my english to explain it.



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5 Re: How to attract old players on Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:40 am

Vanilla990

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@Owen:
I would say the 3 biggest Runescapers on YouTube are SparcMac, Nightmarerh and ChrisArchie.


The game has changed a lot over the last few years, I'll admit it's not what I remember Runescape as. I'm still undecided whether overall the changes have been for good or for bad.

I agree with 414 that since the release of skill capes and the completionist capes etc that the purpose of the game has changed. People would argue that before the release of these items the sole purpose of the game was to pk. I would disagree with that but there has definitely been a visible change in how and why people are playing.

I also agree that the game has been updated to appeal to younger players. I suppose it makes sense to try and widen the age range of players using the game and you have to admit, there are some areas of the game that have need this "baby proofing" or changing. Jagex have rebranded several of the old quests which I think is good such as replacing Romeo and Juliet with Gunnars Ground. I am also a fan of the new tutorial area. I think that to revive a very much dead area with some new life and a new experience is a worthwhile idea and that it should be done to several other areas.

As for the community. I feel that the community has been getting a lot more immature. Yes, you could say that this is because Jagex are trying to market the game to a younger audience but I don't think that is the problem. I think the problem is the "Internet" and "memes" etc. Since all of these things have become available on the internet, I've seen the level of intelligence drop rapidly and now areas of the internet are full of idiots/trolls. Runescape is one of the areas they have moved to which is a real shame as most of the rants on the forums are written by these type of people and they need to go curl up in a corner and die because they don't deserve to exist anymore. (Part of the reason I hate Dialga for posting cat pictures all the time)

How do I think Jagex can attract old players?

I honestly have no idea. I remember back several years ago when players were asking for thing such as a veterans cape and updates to certain skills. A lot of the things I heard about have now been added to the game or are being developed on. I suppose all Jagex can do is hope old players still check the website for news and might spot some of the updates they have been waiting for.

6 Re: How to attract old players on Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:11 am

Warillusen

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I'm going to nit pick from your post there and this may not be any importance to the topic at hand but something that I have to say.
Vanilla990 wrote:I'm still undecided whether overall the changes have been for good or for bad.

How about we get all the updates that's been out this year and start from the first of January and till now. We'll discuss which update was good and which one was bad. Sound good?
Vanilla990 wrote:People would argue that before the release of these items the sole purpose of the game was to pk. I would disagree with that but there has definitely been a visible change in how and why people are playing.
Yes, definite. Though I may have been a lowly noob at the time producing barely 3 hours a day on Runescape and level 70 or so. I did see people started to grind more, not just level to the amount that'll get them at their specific needs, for example someone would only level their mining to 85 just to go and mine runite ore, there wouldn't be a need to get 99 because there was no point of that achievment. I'm yet to be sure if this update was for better or for worse, it was great in the short time the release of skillcapes came around but as time grew on, we see less interaction from players and the need for bots to exist aswell.
Vanilla990 wrote: I feel that the community has been getting a lot more immature. Yes, you could say that this is because Jagex are trying to market the game to a younger audience but I don't think that is the problem. I think the problem is the "Internet" and "memes" etc.
You're mostly right on this one, it's also due to the popularity of 4chan too unfortunately, kids thinking they're in some secret club where only certain people are allowed, that mentality is really hypocritical too when them kids would go on Facebook and shit all over the place with it. The internet is getting older and is getting a lot of younger people to use it, it was bound to happen and let me say this with absolute certainty that nothing will ever bring it back to the former glory, that's if it did have one.
Vanilla990 wrote:I honestly have no idea. I remember back several years ago when players were asking for thing such as a veterans cape and updates to certain skills.
Don't remind me, that veteran cape was a disaster the instant Jagex decide to make a poll on how it would look. Were the people who weren't already a veteran allowed to vote? Why does it look like some scene kid just wipe his dick all over the cape and started to sodomized the living hell out of it. I'm sure you have other examples other than the veteran cape but this is what I think.

Oh and one more thing to add, the GE. I think I hate it, I mean after the GE players didn't really communicate anymore, it wasn't the whole "How's it going" or the "Thank you" it usually was. If one player had something to say to another in public it was only because they had to say something.



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7 Re: How to attract old players on Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:50 am

sharppool

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[[@war

In terms of the GE, I would strongly agree with you. People don't communicate as much as they used to in public and there is no struggle to obtain an item, if one has enough money. The GE has caused items to lose their rarity as well as made people lazy (hence why there are beggars and gamblers in the GE all the time).]]


I'm probably being naive when I say Jagex will fix it, but as I said in my quick RSF thread I made up, Jagex is a company and Runescape is one of their products. A product such as this one tends best to the majority of the users, not individuals. That is one reason why they don't listen to individual ideas unless they are supported by many other people, I believe.

This is my view of the game.
At the start, items were pricey and were often times rare. Now, items are cheap and abundant.

At the start, it was fairly difficult to accumulate wealth. Now, there are so many different ways to accumulate wealth and many of them are simple.

At the start, there were so many things to do in the game and there still are, but the minigames, for example or bosses have all been compromised by players who are good at them. I actually an example of this today. I was online today (i know, it's quite the shock)and owen said "what to do what to do?" and someone suggested to fight a boss. owen said "nex or nothing" or something along those lines. Why not fight any other bosses? most likely because the rewards from other bosses are not worth the hassle.

This is just my opinion about the game, but I have personally quit because of
-the reasons stated above reasons
-including the shift in the overall politeness and respect in the community
-Gravestones
-Curses
-Chaotics
-Dungeoneering update
-etc. etc.
-and everything else everyone has said up to this point



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8 Re: How to attract old players on Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:23 am

невидимый

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Oh, they'll fix it alright; as long as it means they get more money.

9 Re: How to attract old players on Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:51 pm

Owen

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Jagex need to go back to core concepts. Split their game up into sections, improve each section. Example;

PvP - This has been "broken" for so long now. Not even just in terms of pjing. Korasi springs to mind. When was the last PvP update? (Besides graphics) [I know they have something planned so we'll skip this for now]

PvM - This is a big one. They've made about.. 3/4 new "bosses" in RS in the past.. 2 years? maybe? (rough guess) The majority of people that PvM are high levels 135cb+ Yet, when you think about it.. there's possibly.. 2 "true" bosses you can goto - Corp/Nex (Excluding TDs and Glacors) Everything else is just not worth the time. So, if you take those 2 bosses, how long is it going to be (assuming you've never bossed those 2 before) before you get bored of them? 3-4 weeks(each)? maximum? Yet, in 2 >Years< they've only released those. (Yes, I know bosses are a lot of work to produce to sort out drops etc.)

Skilling - As everyone said, the comp/max capes have made every attempt to grind for them - Reason? (I honestly don't know) If you look at the skills list, tell me 1 skill you >need< to use after level 99? (excluding combat) and, that's a massive problem, as it makes the players grind to get a level that isn't required in any way shape or form to improve the gameplay experience. Let's look at dungeoneering for a second;
Congratulations you've reached level 90 - There is now no new content after this level (Besides in dungeoneering itself) Reasoning? Why make the skill goto level 120.
I forget where, I think it was on one of Runesharks podcasts where the Jmod said "There are no shop rewards planned for dungeoneering"
Why? Surely they should have planned out exactly what they were going to release for the decision to be made for the skill to goto 120? [Which they obviously haven't otherwise they would have done the key update earlier]

Skilling used to be profitable - Look at Double nats at 92(?) rcing, they were the best money back in the day. Now look at them.

Money making -
Okay, so this is semi out of the control of Jagex (now) - but Dicing/gambling. This made the community >want< to gamble, because they want the best gear in the game? (who doesn't) so it's created this "gambling" etiquette - that everyone wants a part of now. Why? Because dice bags were put into the game (For no reason?) A long time ago. Would "hot/cold" even exist if Dice bags weren't in the game to begin with? Probably not.

Staking - This in my opinion should be removed or updated. I think (again) in one of runesharks podcasts they mentioned there wasn't a "You win the opponents armour" option in staking. Which would probably encourage people to DM more often (instead of relying on the wilderness)

Grand Exchange - I do miss World 2. The grand exchange for me anyway, was the game getting easier. If you want something now you just buy it, no concern of where it came from/how much it costs (generally). They also made merching stupidly easy (which is why I barely ever merch anymore) What's the point in having money you haven't earnt? If somethings easy, I generally won't want to do it.
Which leads on to..

Is/was Runescape challenging?

Say 4 years ago -
I would say yes, generally speaking items were harder to find/buy, wildy was essentially "rune whip/dds" or for the rich guys maybe barrows. Construction (For example) cost roughly what it costs today (but since money is *10 easier to make, it's cheap now)

Today -
No, Runescape is not challenging in the slightest. What are you going to do? Attempt to solo Nex? Okay, cool good luck - Gravestones are there if you fail. Solo corp? You can run back and get your stuff. Get 99 Construction? Okay, give like 100m and get 200k xp/h (Grind dat max cape). Need to get 100m? okay, spend 3-4 days at frosts. Can't ge to frosts? Okay, that's fine too go kill dragons of some kind. Too bot invested? Welcome to the "Bot Fixed RS 2k12" >_>

Community -
I believe a large proportion of this, is Jagex not communicating with the community properly. Take pretty much any update you want this year - Let's just take SoF for example;

They introduced SoF and were like.. so you get 2 spins a day - 1 spin if your members, it quickly became aware you could get members items in f2p, and it would ask you to buy members to claim it. Okay, so everyone was raging about (yet another) money making scheme by Jagex.

How long was it? a month? or so? maybe slightly more I dunno, they introduced RWT essentially. But- was this on the BTS? Yes, they said "they're going to be adding some new ways to get extra spins" at the bottom of the BTS, nowhere in there did it say that they had already added them. (It did in a separate news post below BTS)

.. along with that, Why aren't they doing those votes on content? Like they did with Dscimmy/Reintroducing free trade etc. To actually engauge with the community more. Let's face it, the community runs the game (as they do with most games).

..anyway I'm fed up of typing now.

Summary;
I do not believe a single one of the core areas above is fully working as it should be.

@414 I meant splitting "friends chat" into "Friends chat" and "Clan chat" why not just like.. make a clan interface where you can rank people in your friends chat (unlimitedly) to invite them into your "clan" for example. It's running two systems that do the same thing (essentially) side by side, that's my problem with it.



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10 Re: How to attract old players on Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:19 pm

невидимый

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Yes, the whole splintering of clan chat into friends/clan was a traumatic and unforgettable experience. I do believe that it is time for the people still stranded to leap across to the greener grass.

11 Re: How to attract old players on Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:42 pm

Warillusen

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It is the point of no return. Runescape is gone, nothing will bring it back; anyone who continues to play are just holding out for a miracle update that'll take them back to when it was great, it'll never happen. I think we all need to move on.

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12 Re: How to attract old players on Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:12 am

Vanilla990

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@Owen

Boss monsters currently in development:
- Queen Black Dragon
- Kalphite King
- More monsters for the dominion tower

PvM has become broken because of the number of people doing it. If less people did PvM then it wouldn't be broken. Because "everyone" does PvM it's made boss hunting useless. Yeah, admittedly they haven't released too many boss monsters over the last few years but I don't see why they should. As you have said in the past, they need to balance updates. You can't have them releasing a new boss monster every month just to please those sadist PvMers who don't know how to do anything else.


Dungeoneering:
Dungeoneering was never meant to be a part of Runescape. It was developed as a separate game originally until they pulled back on the idea and instead converted the already developed idea into the skill we know as Dungeoneering. The reason they currently have nothing planned for between 99 and 120 other than unlocking new floors is because they are waiting for other things to change/update so they can plan new content. We already know there will be Sagas for the warped floors etc and Floor 61. There are also rumours that there are a few new quests requiring Dungeoneering so we might see rewards at some stage.

Staking:
Yes, I agree that staking has ruined part of the game. It used to be fun when you would just duel a stranger for 10k but now people are using it as a method to make money it's just pointless and needs to be changed.

Gambling:
Although you have mentioned this under "money making" which I think is wrong, I do agree that gambling has taken it's toll on the community. Dicing is pretty much the reason for why gambling became so popular in Runescape. It should never have been allowed to continue for as long as it did but I know that developing alternatives takes time so meh.

PvP:
We know the new Bounty Hunter is in development and it's supposed to help bring a new light to PvP in Runescape. It's due for release this year and I'm guessing it's probably only a few months away. I seem to remember you, Truly and I going PvPing in the wilderness with Korasi and special attack restore spell. You can't really moan at people for using weapons when you have used them yourself. I don't think Korasi is used much in the wilderness anyway, it special attack really isn't as strong as you think and most people prefer god swords over a Korasi.

13 Re: How to attract old players on Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:14 am

Owen

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Well, I'll start from the top I guess.

I know they have boss monsters in development, but i'd argue that it's too little too late. I know it's game development and everything; but the fact that we have 2 bosses for people combat leveled 135+ is a joke. If you aren't in to PvP (let's face it, a lot of people aren't) it leaves PvM as the only source of combat. So, you're training away getting high combat levels (which probably takes 2-3 months these days) to play content that's only good for about 8 weeks (unless you >really< want to carry on). Anyway, Combat isn't as-big-as a problem as skilling as it is useful in other things like quests etc.

Dungeoneering.. They should already >have< at least 1 piece of high leveled content- that needs over 100 dungeoneering, but that's just my opinion so moving on.

The reason I put dicing/gambling under money making, is because the community generally belives that it's the fastest money in the game, as they see all these people wearing the best gear saying "loldicingsfun" or whatever.

With regards to PvP.. My point was generally focused around Jagex introducing a cheap weapon comparable to claws/godswords to be used in the wildy. Although, I really never did understand the whole.. Magic special attack on a melee weapon concept.

P.s. I wasn't moaning about people using Korasi, I was more.. hinting that Jagex shouldn't have put it into the game. (or wilderness)



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14 Re: How to attract old players on Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:52 am

Capacitor

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I read something, somewhere, from someone that basically summised why I don't play anymore:

Jagex is making it a casual game.

Before, it required time, and if you didn't have time, you didn't get anywhere. Jagex (and whatever American faggot corporation that controls them now) is making Runescape more and more a casual (e.g. Farmville) game that you can just get on for 30 minutes/hour a day and progress at a good rate.



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15 Re: How to attract old players on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:49 am

Penguin414

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Pengiun98 wrote:I read something, somewhere, from someone that basically summised why I don't play anymore:

Jagex is making it a casual game.

Before, it required time, and if you didn't have time, you didn't get anywhere. Jagex (and whatever American faggot corporation that controls them now) is making Runescape more and more a casual (e.g. Farmville) game that you can just get on for 30 minutes/hour a day and progress at a good rate.

You make a good point, and SOF is a great emphasis of this.



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16 Re: How to attract old players on Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:44 pm

Cyrus44

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@war
im still playing runescape because i like runescape im not waiting for an update to fix everything
im playing runescape how i want to play how i have always played

if a update comes out and i dont like it i wont do it, just like sof im not using the free spins and the tokens i get i just drop them



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17 Re: How to attract old players on Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:29 pm

Xzil

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@Cyrus

I don't really get that.. I'm not against SoF in general, only the buying of spins. I'll use my free spins and w/e else I get because nothing from it can hurt. I do however draw the line at the buying of spins, because, as we've said it is just Jagex's way of RWT

But it's your choice to do what you want, it doesn't really matter I guess.



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18 Re: How to attract old players on Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:33 pm

Owen

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Jagex logic:

"People are using spins, therefore it's a successful update."

But yeah, I use the free ones since it's free xp. >_>



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19 Re: How to attract old players on Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:35 pm

Cyrus44

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thats why sof will always be in the game
if people dont even use the free spins jagex will see no point in it and they might take it out



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20 Re: How to attract old players on Tue May 01, 2012 12:09 am

Penguin414

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Xzil;

Owen wrote:But yeah, I use the free ones since it's free xp. >_>

That's one of the main issues. Free xp, for doing nothing. And then some more xp while skilling from the free spins. Then some more free spins from combat etc.
Jagex have become more and more about just passing out xp. What's next, 99 rc in a day?



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21 Re: How to attract old players on Tue May 01, 2012 12:22 am

Owen

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I wouldn't use them, IF I believed Jagex would listen.

There's thousands of comments on the forums to try and get them to remove it, if they aren't going to listen to that.. I can't see them taking any notice of in-game figures of who is using them. <_<

But yeah, Runespan is later today.



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22 Re: How to attract old players on Tue May 01, 2012 9:21 am

Capacitor

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Penguin414 wrote: What's next, 99 rc in a day?


*Reads latest update* The Runespan!


Close enough.



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